Dar es Salaam — The prosecution on Monday challenged the basis of wide-ranging evidence given by CHADEMA vice-chairperson (Mainland) John Heche in Tundu Lissu’s treason trial, drawing admissions that he did not personally witness most of the alleged killings, disappearances and abductions he had described to the High Court.
Heche, the fifth defence witness, said he had not seen the alleged killings of Msafiri Mbwambo in Arumeru or Nyatega Wenje in Rorya, had not attended post-mortems in the matters he raised, and had never witnessed anyone being abducted or disappearing.
The cross-examination is significant because Lissu has used Heche’s evidence to argue that his April 3, 2025 call for electoral reform emerged from a history of alleged repression, violence and electoral malpractice, rather than an intention to commit treason.
The prosecution sought to show that much of this background evidence relied on reports, social media, accounts from other people, or the witness’s own political interpretation.
Heche remained under cross-examination when the court rose. The hearing was adjourned to Tuesday, September 15, at 9 a.m.
Questions over first-hand knowledge
State Attorney Ignas Mwinuka began by questioning Heche about the elections in which he had participated. Heche said he had taken part in three elections administered by the National Electoral Commission and was declared the winner in two — as a councillor in 2008 and as an MP in 2015.
READ MORE: Heche Tells Court Lissu’s Disputed April Speech Repeated CHADEMA’s Election-Reform Campaign
Mwinuka asked whether police had stuffed ballots or whether party agents had been barred in the elections Heche won. Heche said police had never assisted opposition candidates and denied that agents were stopped so that he could win.
The prosecutor then turned to the deaths and other alleged abuses in Heche’s examination-in-chief. Heche said he did not see the killings in Arumeru or Rorya, did not have medical reports establishing causes of death and had not participated in any post-mortem examination.
Ignas Mwinuka: “In all the killings you described, how many did you personally witness?”
John Heche: “I did not say [how many].”
Mwinuka: “Were you present and did you witness the Arumeru killing?”
Heche: “I was not present.”
Mwinuka also asked about the alleged abductions and disappearances which Heche had referred to, including material he said came from Tanzania Law Society reports and other sources. Heche said he had personally witnessed neither a kidnapping nor a disappearance.
Ignas Mwinuka: “Have you ever seen someone being abducted with your own eyes?”
John Heche: “With my own eyes, I have never witnessed it.”
Mwinuka: “Have you ever witnessed someone disappear?”
Heche: “No.”
Heche said CHADEMA did not trust the Chande commission’s report on the October 29, 2025 events, believing it had been formed in circumstances in which it would shield those responsible. He agreed that the party did not cooperate with the commission.
READ MORE: Court Rejects Lissu Bid to Call President, But Summons IGP, CDF and DCI in Treason Trial
Mwinuka questioned Heche about the foreign and regional reports he had cited in support of his account of the 2025 election and post-election events.
Heche said he had accessed the material through news outlets and social media, and that the Thabo Mbeki Foundation, UN, Commonwealth, World Council of Churches, African Union and SADC reports he mentioned were in English.
He accepted that he was the person translating their contents into Kiswahili before the court, but said he was not asked during his evidence-in-chief to establish his competence as a translator.
Ignas Mwinuka: “You agree that it was you who translated those reports from English into Kiswahili in court?”
John Heche: “That is correct.”
Mwinuka asked why Heche had not sought to tender the reports themselves. Heche replied that it was not his duty, saying he had only described them and considered them addressed to all Tanzanians, including himself.
When the prosecutor suggested the material might have been taken from an artificial-intelligence platform, Heche repeated that he got the reports through media outlets.
Background and finances
Principal State Attorney Nassoro Katuga subsequently questioned Heche about his education, family, businesses, vehicles and alleged party fundraising. A number of the questions appear to mirror material that several social media accounts have been circulating since yesterday, when some netizens declaring that CHADEMA would be ‘officially buried’ tomorrow, meaning today.
On the matter of education Heche said he held a Bachelor of Education degree after first taking a diploma, was not paid as CHADEMA vice-chairperson and had private businesses.
READ MORE: Lissu Calls CHADEMA Vice-chair as Defence Links ‘No Reforms’ Campaign to Election Grievances
Asked about vehicles, Heche said he had four, including a Toyota Prado he said cost Sh160 million, a double-cab vehicle he put at Sh80 million, a Mitsubishi he said cost Sh60 million and a BMW whose price he could not recall. He distinguished between expensive cars and other items listed in records, such as tractors and agricultural machinery.
Katuga also put to Heche a bank receipt for an account which the witness acknowledged was his. Heche said he did not know a person named Nilesh or Salman whom the prosecutor associated with alleged payments.
Nassoro Katuga: “Where did you take the money you received from Nilesh?”
John Heche: “Who is Nilesh? I do not know him. Are you bringing street gossip here?”
The questioning included a number of exchanges that drew laughter in the courtroom. Asked whether a relative named Suguta David Heche had received medical treatment in India, Heche noted that his father had eight wives and that he had many younger siblings.
Brother’s death
Katuga revisited Heche’s evidence about the death of his younger brother, Suguta Heche, in 2018. Heche accepted that he was not present when his brother was allegedly burnt with a hot iron by a police officer and that the information came from the then Mara Regional Police Commander.
He said he believed the death was intended to frighten him and force him to abandon politics, but accepted that the officer did not tell him that this was his motive.
Nassoro Katuga: “Did the police officer tell you he killed him to intimidate you?”
John Heche: “He did not tell me that, but I know.”
Katuga: “So the reason for the death remains with that police officer?”
Heche: “Correct.”
The witness accused the prosecutor of being insensitive when pressed over whether the account amounted to hearsay.
John Heche: “We are talking about people’s lives — do not be a sadist.”
Katuga also queried Heche’s evidence that certain deaths, including that of former CHADEMA candidate Alphonce Mawazo, were election-related.
READ MORE: CHADEMA Communications Chief Disputes Claim Lissu Published Alleged Treasonous Remarks
Heche said the information had been discussed within the party’s Central Committee and in Parliament and reported by media outlets, but accepted that leaders from Geita who briefed the party had not come to give evidence.
Lissu shooting and October allegations
The prosecution challenged the witness’s account of the 2017 shooting of Lissu, asking whether Heche personally saw a vehicle follow the then opposition MP to his Dodoma home. Heche said he had received that detail from Lissu himself.
Mwinuka also put to Heche that then-president John Magufuli and other senior officials had condemned the shooting, and that former Speaker Job Ndugai had announced an investigation.
Heche said he recalled Ndugai’s statement and investigation, and recalled that the then Vice-President visited the hospital after attending a meeting.
Katuga further questioned Heche about his own arrest in October 2025 while travelling towards Kenya, his subsequent detention and return of his passport. Heche said the passport was taken on October 18 and later returned after a letter was written through CHADEMA’s lawyer, Dr Rugemeleza Nshala, and immigration authorities responded.
The state put to Heche that its advocates were at Oysterbay Police Station to coordinate criminal investigations into the October 29 events, not to manufacture a case. Heche said he did not know what the lawyers were doing and had earlier only said he found them at the station.
READ MORE: Court Gives Lissu Treason Trial 14 More Days as Defence Calls CHADEMA Communications Chief
Heche accepted that he refused to give a police statement when questioned about the October 29 allegations, describing that refusal as his right.
He also agreed that Justice Othman Chande’s account had said the events were planned, but said he did not know whether that matched an allegation that he and other CHADEMA leaders coordinated them.
Video shown to witness
During the cross-examination, Katuga asked the court to play a video to refresh Heche’s memory of a speech attributed to him.
After viewing it, Heche said the voice sounded somewhat like his own but that he could not remember the words. When Katuga asked whether the recording included the assertion that Prosecution Witness 17 had published relevant material, Heche said the words resembled those used by PW17, adding: “They resemble that AI of yours.”
The episode underscored the state’s effort to compare Heche’s testimony with recordings and earlier statements, while the defence witness questioned the reliability and provenance of material put to him.
Katuga asked whether CHADEMA’s No Reforms, No Election position was equivalent to preventing an election or merely withdrawing the party’s participation. Heche said the two were not the same.
The prosecutor also asked whether Heche believed the court could be trusted to determine the case. Heche responded that he could not say whether he trusted the court before it had delivered a decision, but agreed that judges assess a witness’s demeanour.
Nassoro Katuga: “Do you trust this court or not?”
John Heche: “On what? The case has not been decided; how can I say I trust it?”
Later, Katuga asked whether a person who loves his country would promote destruction of public property. Heche agreed, but maintained he had not advocated that conduct.
The state also queried Heche’s evidence on the need for Lissu’s 2017 medical treatment abroad, including whether a formal referral was required. Heche said a patient treated by the government would ordinarily go through local hospitals before travel abroad, but that someone already ill abroad might be treated there.
Nassoro Katuga: “Not everyone is unhappy about what happened to the chairman.”
John Heche: “I do not know whether you are unhappy — you are very sadistic.”
The court took a one-and-a-half-hour afternoon recess after Lissu objected to a prosecution request for a shorter break. Lissu told the judges that, because he was held in prison, he had no time outside court to consult his witnesses and lawyers.
Tundu Lissu: “I live in prison. I have no time to speak with my witnesses and lawyers. Let the usual one-and-a-half hours be given so that I can consult them.”
Justice Ndunguru allowed the longer recess. Heche’s cross-examination had not concluded by the end of the day.
The judge adjourned the hearing to Tuesday morning after both Lissu and the witness said they were tired.
